Progressive Democrats of Illinois

Sunday, February 20, 2011

Re: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
Sorry, but I'm at a loss to such a "legal" definition.

Ron.

-----Original Message-----
From: pdi-bounces@illinoisprogressives.org
[mailto:pdi-bounces@illinoisprogressives.org] On Behalf Of Dan Stafford
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 8:30 PM
To: ronweiner1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
I am not comparing the draft to slavery, that was Gary's comment, although
some aspects of military service, even the voluntary kind are damned close.
That is not what I'm after.

I asked if the legal definition of slavery is one person owning another in
my first email. I still haven't gotten a definitive answer. If that's not
the legal definition, what I'm thinking of is moot.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Weiner <ronweiner1@comcast.net>
Sent: February 20, 2011 5:18 PM
To: Dan Stafford <aquarianm@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
Bob, Dan and Gary are failing to take into account that slavery has to do
with one person owning another.

Being drafted is not the same as being owned by any military
organization,;it is right there in the Constitution where it states that the
right to bear arms (as in the nation's defense, which is understood) shall
not be infringed.

Comparing the draft with slavery is nonsense.

-----Original Message-----
From: pdi-bounces@illinoisprogressives.org
[mailto:pdi-bounces@illinoisprogressives.org] On Behalf Of Bob Babcock
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 1:16 PM
To: ronweiner1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***

I'm STILL not seeing a definition

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gary Kleppe" <gary@garykleppe.org>

To: <Bob.Babcock.now@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:58 PM

Subject: Re: [PDI] Question of law

> *** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***

> Quoting Dan Stafford <aquarianm@gmail.com>:

>> As I understand it, slavery is illegal in the US & other countries.

>> How is this defined under the US Constitution & other law? Is one person

>> forbidden to own another?

> The Thirteenth Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude,

> except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly

> convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to

> their jurisdiction.

> (The military draft blatantly violated this, proving that laws are only

> as good as their application and enforcement.)

> _______________________________________________

> PDI mailing list

> PDI@illinoisprogressives.org

>
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g

> This message was sent to Bob.Babcock.now@gmail.com.

> To unsubscribe, visit the URL above, or email

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Re: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
I am not comparing the draft to slavery, that was Gary's comment, although some aspects of military service, even the voluntary kind are damned close. That is not what I'm after.

I asked if the legal definition of slavery is one person owning another in my first email. I still haven't gotten a definitive answer. If that's not the legal definition, what I'm thinking of is moot.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Weiner <ronweiner1@comcast.net>
Sent: February 20, 2011 5:18 PM
To: Dan Stafford <aquarianm@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
Bob, Dan and Gary are failing to take into account that slavery has to do
with one person owning another.

Comparing the draft with slavery is nonsense.

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***

I'm STILL not seeing a definition

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gary Kleppe" <gary@garykleppe.org>

To: <Bob.Babcock.now@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:58 PM

Subject: Re: [PDI] Question of law

> *** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***

> Quoting Dan Stafford <aquarianm@gmail.com>:

>> As I understand it, slavery is illegal in the US & other countries.

>> How is this defined under the US Constitution & other law? Is one person

>> forbidden to own another?

> The Thirteenth Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude,

> except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly

> convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to

> their jurisdiction.

> (The military draft blatantly violated this, proving that laws are only

> as good as their application and enforcement.)

> _______________________________________________

> PDI mailing list

> PDI@illinoisprogressives.org

>
http://illinoisprogressives.org/mailman/listinfo/pdi_illinoisprogressives.or
g

> This message was sent to Bob.Babcock.now@gmail.com.

> To unsubscribe, visit the URL above, or email

> webmaster@illinoisprogressives.org for assistance.

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Re: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
Bob, Dan and Gary are failing to take into account that slavery has to do
with one person owning another.

Comparing the draft with slavery is nonsense.

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***

I'm STILL not seeing a definition

----- Original Message -----

From: "Gary Kleppe" <gary@garykleppe.org>

To: <Bob.Babcock.now@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:58 PM

Subject: Re: [PDI] Question of law

> *** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***

> Quoting Dan Stafford <aquarianm@gmail.com>:

>> As I understand it, slavery is illegal in the US & other countries.

>> How is this defined under the US Constitution & other law? Is one person

>> forbidden to own another?

> The Thirteenth Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude,

> except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly

> convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to

> their jurisdiction.

> (The military draft blatantly violated this, proving that laws are only

> as good as their application and enforcement.)

> _______________________________________________

> PDI mailing list

> PDI@illinoisprogressives.org

>
http://illinoisprogressives.org/mailman/listinfo/pdi_illinoisprogressives.or
g

> This message was sent to Bob.Babcock.now@gmail.com.

> To unsubscribe, visit the URL above, or email

> webmaster@illinoisprogressives.org for assistance.

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Re: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
Why do you ask??

-----Original Message-----
From: pdi-bounces@illinoisprogressives.org
[mailto:pdi-bounces@illinoisprogressives.org] On Behalf Of Dan Stafford
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:12 AM
To: ronweiner1@comcast.net
Subject: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
As I understand it, slavery is illegal in the US & other countries.

How is this defined under the US Constitution & other law? Is one person
forbidden to own another?

Thanks,

Dan

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[PDI] FW: Join us in Wisconsin

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***

-----Original Message-----
From: Carol B Davis <cdavis3183@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: February 20, 2011 11:58 AM
To: Carol B Davis <cdavis3183@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: FW: Join us in Wisconsin

A bus will be going to Madison on Monday! Scroll down for more information....

Best of luck to all!
Solidarity with the workers of Wisconsin!

Carol

--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Susan Lubonovich <susan_m_lubonovich@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Susan Lubonovich <susan_m_lubonovich@hotmail.com>
Subject: FW: Join us in Wisconsin
To: "Carol Davis" <cdavis3183@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 11:33 AM

FYI

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2011 15:33:18 +0000
From: lfletch0822@comcast.net
Subject: Join us in Wisconsin

Solidarity in Wisconsin
Solidarity in Wisconsin

Monday, February 21
Depart: 6am

Where: Plumbers' Hall
1340 W Washington
Chicago, IL
Return: 9pm

Workers' rights are under attack in Wisconsin. The Chicago Federation of Labor and Jobs with Justice are sending a bus to Madison on Monday so we can stand in solidarity with our brothers and sisters at risk of losing their right to bargain collectively.
If you are interested in joining us, contact Susan by email or at 773-412-2386.

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Re: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
Ok, so constitutionally it's banned. However, to get at what I'm thinking of, how it's DEFINED under the law is critical.

I DO have a Progressive and ethical direction to take this.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Kleppe <gary@garykleppe.org>
Sent: February 20, 2011 12:58 PM
To: Dan Stafford <aquarianm@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
Quoting Dan Stafford <aquarianm@gmail.com>:

> As I understand it, slavery is illegal in the US & other countries.
>
> How is this defined under the US Constitution & other law? Is one
> person forbidden to own another?

The Thirteenth Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude,
except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been
duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place
subject to their jurisdiction.

(The military draft blatantly violated this, proving that laws are
only as good as their application and enforcement.)

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Re: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
I'm STILL not seeing a definition

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Kleppe" <gary@garykleppe.org>
To: <Bob.Babcock.now@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [PDI] Question of law

> *** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
> Quoting Dan Stafford <aquarianm@gmail.com>:
>
>> As I understand it, slavery is illegal in the US & other countries.
>>
>> How is this defined under the US Constitution & other law? Is one person
>> forbidden to own another?
>
>
> The Thirteenth Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude,
> except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly
> convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to
> their jurisdiction.
>
>
> (The military draft blatantly violated this, proving that laws are only
> as good as their application and enforcement.)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PDI mailing list
> PDI@illinoisprogressives.org
> http://illinoisprogressives.org/mailman/listinfo/pdi_illinoisprogressives.org
>
> This message was sent to Bob.Babcock.now@gmail.com.
> To unsubscribe, visit the URL above, or email
> webmaster@illinoisprogressives.org for assistance.

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Re: [PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
Quoting Dan Stafford <aquarianm@gmail.com>:

> As I understand it, slavery is illegal in the US & other countries.
>
> How is this defined under the US Constitution & other law? Is one
> person forbidden to own another?

(The military draft blatantly violated this, proving that laws are
only as good as their application and enforcement.)

_______________________________________________
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[PDI] Question of law

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
As I understand it, slavery is illegal in the US & other countries.

How is this defined under the US Constitution & other law? Is one person forbidden to own another?

Thanks,

Dan

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Saturday, February 19, 2011

[PDI] FW: Middle East: blackout-proof democracy

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-----Original Message-----
From: Stephanie B - Avaaz.org <avaaz@avaaz.org>
Sent: February 19, 2011 9:15 AM
To: aquarianm@gmail.com <aquarianm@gmail.com>
Subject: Middle East: blackout-proof democracy

Dear friends,

An extraordinary wave of people power is flooding the Middle East, but autocratic regimes are responding with violence -- and Egypt-style internet blackouts. Let's blackout-proof the protests by providing satellite communications technology and support teams to key organisers:

Across the Middle East -- in Bahrain, Libya, Yemen, and more countries every day -- autocratic regimes are trying to crush unprecedented peaceful protests with brutality and blackouts. These countries are poised on the brink between liberation and enormous bloodshed -- and the protesters' ability to reach the eyes of the world could determine the outcomes.

Avaaz is working urgently to "blackout-proof" the protests -- with secure satellite modems and phones, tiny video cameras, and portable radio transmitters, plus expert support teams on the ground -- to enable activists to broadcast live video feeds even during internet and phone blackouts and ensure the oxygen of international attention fuels their courageous movements for change.

The window for us to deliver this help is closing fast, as regimes are moving quickly to choke off borders and internet connections. Small donations from 10,000 of us would fund critical technology and support teams for those who need it most. Let's chip in to empower those now carrying the destiny of the Middle East in their peaceful hands -- donate now:

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/blackout_proof_the_protests/?vl

The amazing live-feeds from Cairo's Tahrir Square vitally sustained public support and broadcast the Mubarak regime's shameless violence against Egyptian demonstrators. As we watched the scenes of protest from around the world, hundreds of thousands of us signed the Avaaz solidarity petition--which was announced on Al Jazeera to ensure Egyptians knew of the world's support. Today, Egyptian protest leaders say that knowing the world was with them helped spur them on and helped stop moments of violence from becoming bloodbaths.

As Egypt's internet blackout deepened, Avaaz and partners worked to send satellite internet equipment to organisers there. Now, Bahrain is scrambling to implement its own internet clampdown -- and we have the chance to provide critical support to ensure the blackout can't succeed. The communications equipment and support teams will help leaders to broadcast locally to organize rallies, communicate with other activists around the region, and provide information to the world if there is a blackout -- providing an essential counterweight to regime propaganda, and a form of protection to demonstrators through increased exposure and prominence.

And if media outlets are kicked out, protesters could keep a livestream of information flowing across the internet. With the needed funds, Avaaz can immediately dispatch equipment and world-class expert teams to the Middle East.

Every day, the protests grow and the crackdowns escalate in violence. Organisers say the next few days are critical to the survival of these democracy movements and that our support is essential. Let's all donate now and provide tangible solidarity to this inspiring explosion of people power.

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/blackout_proof_the_protests/?vl

There are moments in history in which the impossible becomes unavoidable. Like the dissolution of the Soviet Union just before its fall, the changes sweeping the Middle East were unimaginable to most a month ago. But people power has a logic and timeline all its own. While many of us may never step foot in the Middle East, the hopes of its people are interwoven with ours and those of the world. In moments like these, it is inspiring to know that our solidarity, in hope and action, can play a small part in big change.

With determination,

Stephanie, David, Alice, Morgan, Ricken, Rewan, Maria Paz and the rest of the Avaaz team

SOURCES:

Bahrain, Libya and Yemen try to crush protests with violence – The Guardian, 18 February 2011:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/18/bahrain-libya-yemen-protests-violence

Internet use in Bahrain restricted, data shows – New York Times, 18 February 2011:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/world/middleeast/18manama.html

Clashes rock Bahraini capital – Al Jazeera, 17 February 2011:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/201121714223324820.html

Crackdown against Protests Continues as Yemen Boils – Yemen Post, 16 February, 2011:
http://yemenpost.net/Detail123456789.aspx?ID=3&SubID=3145

Algerian founding father urges reform – BBC News, 17 February, 2011:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12490088

Support the Avaaz community! We're entirely funded by donations and receive no money from governments or corporations. Our dedicated team ensures even the smallest contributions go a long way -- donate here.

Avaaz.org is a 7-million-person global campaign network that works to ensure that the views and values of the world's people shape global decision-making. ("Avaaz" means "voice" or "song" in many languages.) Avaaz members live in every nation of the world; our team is spread across 13 countries on 4 continents and operates in 14 languages. Learn about some of Avaaz's biggest campaigns here, or follow us on Facebook or Twitter.

This message was sent to aquarianm@gmail.com. To change your email address, language, or other information, contact us via this form -- or simply click here to unsubscribe.

To contact Avaaz, please do not reply to this email. Instead, write to us at www.avaaz.org/en/contact or call us at +1-888-922-8229 (US).
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[PDI] FW: Recall Republicans In WI

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/18/wisconsin-recall/

-----Original Message-----
Subject: Recall

Eight GOP State Senators In Wisconsin Can Be Recalled Right Now; Gov. Walker Can Be Recalled In January
All this week, thousands of protesters have stormed the Wisconsin capitol in opposition to Gov. Scott Walker's (R) plan to cut public employee pay and weaken or eliminate state workers' collective bargaining rights. Many of them chanted "recall Walker," as these protesters in Madison did Tuesday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFJL4lrO5b4
Yet Walker, who cannot be recalled from office until next January, is not the only official who could be the subject of a recall election. Under Wisconsin election law, any elected official may be recalled from office:
(a) The qualified electors of the state, of any county, city, village, or town, of any congressional, legislative, judicial, town sanitary, or school district, or of any prosecutorial unit may petition for the recall of any incumbent elective official by filing a petition with the same official or agency with whom nomination papers or declarations of candidacy for the office are filed demanding the recall of the officeholder.
(b) Except as provided in par. (c), a petition for recall of an officer shall be signed by electors equal to at least 25% of the vote cast for the office of governor at the last election within the same district or territory as that of the officeholder being recalled. . . .
(s) No petition for recall of an officer may be offered for filing prior to the expiration of one year after commencement of the term of office for which the officer is elected.
Because the recall statute allows elected officials to serve for a full year before they are subject to recall, Walker himself is immune until January of 2012. Eight of Walker's Republican allies in the state senate have served at least one year of their current term, however, and thus are eligible for a recall petition right now. If just three of these Republicans were to be replaced with Democrats, the state senate would flip to a Democratic-majority body.
The eight Republicans who can be recalled right now are:
Robert Cowles
Alberta Darling
Sheila Harsdorf
Luther Olsen
Randy Hopper
Glenn Grothman
Mary Lazich
Dan Kapanke
When next January rolls around, a little over 500,000 petition signatures will be necessary to trigger a recall election for Gov. Walker.
Update An e-mailer asks how many signatures are required to trigger a recall election for an individual senator. The exact number will vary by district according to how many people cast a vote for governor in that district, but if you divide the approximately 500,000 signatures needed to recall Walker by the 33 senate districts, it adds up to between 15,000-16,000 signatures per senator.

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Friday, February 18, 2011

Re: [PDI] FW: This weekend: Wisconsin on fire

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***
If you drive, I would suggest you park at the mall... Google Olive Garden... And take the bus to the capital building.

--
Kat

Public Google Calendar:
<http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=engageinactivism%40gmail.com&ctz=America/Chicago>

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Stafford <aquarianm@gmail.com>
Sender: pdi-bounces@illinoisprogressives.org
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 21:43:29
To: Katherine Doyle<KatDoyle@uscellular.blackberry.com>
Reply-To: Progressive Dems of IL <pdi@illinoisprogressives.org>
Subject: [PDI] FW: This weekend: Wisconsin on fire

*** SENT THROUGH PDI MAILING LIST ***

-----Original Message-----
From: Carol B Davis <cdavis3183@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: February 18, 2011 9:09 PM
To: Carol B Davis <cdavis3183@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Fw: This weekend: Wisconsin on fire

Hi Everyone!

I just want to let you know that there will be rallies all weekend in Madison! Scroll down for more information.

If you can manage to make it to Madison, you will have the satisfaction of helping the survival of Unions in America. The right for Unions to exist is at stake in Wisconsin, but will probably spread to much of America.

The trains to Madison leave 4 times a day from Union station and the trip is about 3 hours.

Carol

--- On Fri, 2/18/11, Manny Herrmann, AFL-CIO <peoplepower@aflcio.org> wrote:

From: Manny Herrmann, AFL-CIO <peoplepower@aflcio.org>
Subject: This weekend: Wisconsin on fire
To: cdavis3183@sbcglobal.net
Date: Friday, February 18, 2011, 5:57 PM

Dear Carol B,
Have you heard? Today, tens of thousands of protesters continued to flood the Wisconsin state house – all to oppose Gov. Scott Walker's assault on middle-class jobs and collective bargaining rights.

Can you make it to Madison, Wis., this weekend? This could be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to feel incredible energy and make a difference—don't miss out.

Two rallies are confirmed in Madison for Saturday: one at 10:30 a.m., and another at 4:30 p.m.

If you can't make those, there are also other events throughout Wisconsin, and more events are being announced all the time. So it is very likely there will be protests on Saturday & Sunday.

For regularly updated information on what's happening in Wisconsin this weekend, go here:
http://www.wiafscme.org/

Really try to come if you can. We need all hands on deck this weekend to stop Gov. Walker's budget repair sham. Gov. Walker manufactured a budget emergency by giving tax cuts to business owners, and now he's going after Wisconsin's workers to pay for them—trying to rob some 200,000 public employees of their democratic collective bargaining rights.

Public-sector union members are directly under attack today—but if we don't speak out together, all workers will be under attack in no time. This is not about unions—it's about preserving a middle class in America.

Please come out this weekend. Here's where to find out what's happening in Wisconsin:

http://www.wiafscme.org/

In Solidarity,

Manny Herrmann
Online Mobilization Coordinator, AFL-CIO

P.S. We just got word that tea party protesters will be in Madison tomorrow. We will provide them full space to exercise their rights, as we exercise our rights. Please avoid engaging tea party activists in any confrontational way. Discuss and spread this important message with all activists you see at the rallies.
To find out more about the AFL-CIO, please visit our website at www.aflcio.org.
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[PDI] FW: This weekend: Wisconsin on fire