Friday, March 20, 2009

Citizen's Utility Board Presentation Last Night...

Celia & Rebecca of the Illinois Citizen's Utility Board came out to the suburbs to give a presentation on CUB activities & programs, as well as energy efficiency measures last night.

A little background: I'm one of the two Co-Chairs of the Progressive Democrats of Illinois. ( www.illinoisprogressives.org ) I've held this position since 2005. CUB offered via e-mail to do a presentation at one of our monthly meetings, and I gladly accepted.

*It should be noted that CUB is a non-partisan organization*

The presentation given covered such topics as: CUB mediation services in utility billing disputes, telephone billing analysis and plan comparison assistance for both cell and landline services, the new IL law on net metering for home renewable power systems, federal and state credits and rebates for the installation of high-efficiency appliances and renewable energy systems, upcoming smart grid technologies and remote utility management programs for air conditioning systems, demand-rate billing programs, and home electronics power-management. There was more, and several hand-outs outlining these programs.

Additionally, CUB advised us that Illinois has adopted a Renwable Portfolio Standard of 10% by 2010, and 25% by 2025, and is moving to match CAFE standards in California for new vehicle sales in Illinois.

Highly impressive was the removal of system price caps on federal and state tax credits for renewable energy installations such as wind & solar.

All in all, energy and consumer-oriented policies in Illinois are growing up to face a new standard of fairness and sustainability. There is still much more to be done, but these programs represent a great leap forward.

My heartfelt thanks goes out to CUB and especially to Celia and Rebecca for making the trip out to spend the evening with us.

Dan Stafford


Words are the mind's bridge - its connection to all the universe.
Love is the heart's bridge - its connection to all other souls.
Loving words can work miracles.

Tuesday, March 17, 2009

[PDI] The World According to Derivatives

By yours truly, for your reading pleasure:

7 part series of articles under the umbrella title "The World According
to Derivatives". Getting some very good reviews if my email is any
indication.

The latest version is posted at
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/cat_index_22.shtml and an
earlier version at http://www.dissidentvoice.org/about/

Part 1: Irrational Exhuberance Creates Global Mayhem and Mountains of
Taxpayer Debt
Part 2: A Faustian Bargain
Part 3: The global Casino, Currency Devaluation, and Giant Fire Sales
Part 4: History Repeats as the Off-balance Sheet Money Supply Explodes,
Then Contracts
Part 5: The Dark Side of Global Credit System Redesign
Part 6: Den of Thieves, House of Cards
Part 7: The Place Where Industry, the Military and Government Converge

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Sunday, March 15, 2009

[PDI] Economist Michel Chossudovsky on America's fiscal collapse

Interview by Bonnie Faulkner on Guns and Butter, one hour:
http://kpfa.org/archive/id/49073

Some notes:

The numbers are astounding, and horrifying. . . .We 're in a very
serious situation - the most serious crisis in modern history. Defense
spending and the bank bailouts are eating up the totality of Fed
revenues, and exacerbate the crisis because the real truth is that
stimulus money is NOT going to the real economy. We're really looking at
a fiscal collapse, not a fiscal crisis, because virtually every category
of public expenditure is threatened.

Worse, low interest rates (which notably do not apply to consumer
credit) means few will be purchasing U.S. debt in the form of Treasury
Bills and Bonds while at the same time low interest rates encourage
another speculative onslaught by the financial economy. Treasury thus
lacks the ability to finance its operations.

Worse yet, the banks are not only the recipients of public money but a
big portion of the US debt is held by the banks, allowing the banks to
dictate policy - and basically control EVERYTHING. The public money
going to the banks is being used by the banks to buy up public assets
(and speculate with derivatives).

This means State and local taxes will skyrocket. Meanwhile the upward
transfer of wealth to the financial economy will further gut the real
economy due to speculative activity. The FEMA camps being built around
the country specifically ties in to anticipated unrest.

The people who control the government and the people who support the
government know very well what they have to do to control dissent. One
is to control the media, including the alternative media, so that the
public is completely unaware of the pending impoverishment of the entire
nation. (and since we have a global economy this impoverishment extends
to nations around the world, China's economy is collapsing now. 3rd
world countries already impoverished by IMF structural adjustment loans
will suffer most, and the collapse of their economies will literally
drive even greater numbers into death by starvation)
<END OF NOTES>

In short, the system is rigged. Read about the first global crash of
1345 to find out what may be in store:
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/954_Gallagher_Venice_rig.html

Also WATCH FOR another email from yours truly titled The World According
to Derivatives which is about my 7 part series on derivatives which
explains the whole picture.

THE SOLUTION? Demand Congress get behind Kucinich to create
Constitutional money and regulate the value thereof.


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Re: [PDI] Banks scramble to return funds

I'm on the front end of seeing how this whole banking mess has profoundly
affected people because I arrange financing for homes and businesses.

I say nationalize the mother~$@#@$s! They have not been doing their job of
lending and have tightened up the guidelines so much that a person can't buy
a home, refinance one or refinance business property unless they don't
actually absolutely need to.

The "Hope for Homeowners" and FHA Secure programs are to strict that A)
hardling anyone qualifies and B) most lenders don't want to participate.

We have a client whose file met FHA guidelines - we got an
"Approve/Eligible" from the FHA automated underwriting engine - but the
lender refused it because they have their "own credit overlays". In other
words, the feds were OK with it, it met the guidelines, and the bank
wouldn't finance it. This clients' monthly payments would have dropped over
$500 per month.

Similarly, we have another client whose commercial refinance application was
submitted around last Labor Day. The scenario not only would have improved
their cash flow by over $800 per month, but would have given them a
financial cushion large enough to last over two years if they lost ALL
income. It STILL hasn't closed.

Meanwhile, we see the credit card companies greatly increasing the interest
rates and reducing credit available on credit cards and lines of credit.
When that happens, the credit scores go down. When the credit scores go
down, homeowners and auto insurance premiums increase. And of course, it's
harder for people to refinance into lower interest rate programs because of
the credit scores!

Nationalize the banks.

Bob
& Linda Babcock
Your Finance Consultants
Harmony Consulting Group, Ltd.
Finance Consulting, Home and Business Loan Brokerage
Cell: 630.417.0042
Fax: 630.493.9494
Whether investing in a business or real estate, we have hundreds of sources
for funds: SBA, "hard money", venture capital, factoring, special target
programs and standard "bank" financing.
We'll shop the banks for you.
Other programs:
Find out how to save money on your energy bills.
Use real estate to get a 30% return on tax free money - IRS says yes!
With over 500 lenders available, if we can't get it done, it CAN'T be done!
Renovation loans are a specialty and must be done the right way - we know
how!
"YES! We can do that!"
----- Original Message -----
From: Hal Snyder
To: Bob.Babcock.now@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [PDI] Banks scramble to return funds


"For Rothenberg, the banker in Century City, the prospect of unlimited
government intervention was too much.

Comment: Good thing the darn government wasn't meddling in banking the
last 8 years. Think of the mess we'd be in.

'The real issue was the clause that the government could change any of
the terms," he said. "It was so open-ended.'

Comment: Dude must have never been on the receiving end of a credit
card agreement. Imagine the other side saying it can change the rules
any time.

Of course the real indignity of the TARP funds is the specter of
accountability. The people are getting uppity, wanting to know what
goes on in the offices of their betters. Where is Dick Cheney when we
need him? Secrecy is for the rulers, transparency and suspicion for
the lowly subjects.


On Mar 14, 2009, at 9:16 PM, Daniel Stafford wrote:

> Banks scramble to return funds
> <http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fi-tainted-money14-2009mar14,0,4358692.story?track=rss
> >
>
> Tainted money, now if they can just figure out how to give it back.
>
> L.A. Times

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Saturday, March 14, 2009

Re: [PDI] PDI Digest, Vol 35, Issue 8

I would think that "progressive" indicates people who are interested in progressing, ie changing from the way things have been done.

There is a group PDA--Progressive Democrats of America, to which I think many of us who are interested in progress in DuPage belong.
Many of us who are working with the Democratic Party in DuPage, are progressive thinkers, and seem to be in direct contrast with the way things have been done in DuPage, which, happens to be controlled by the Republican Machine. It does not mean that we "progressives" would want a status quo handed down by the Democratic Machine either.

Kudos to Gary for "illinois progressives."

Kathy Salzano
ktsalz@sbcglobal.net

________________________________
From: "pdi-request@illinoisprogressives.org" <pdi-request@illinoisprogressives.org>
To: Kathy <ktsalz@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 11:00:02 AM
Subject: PDI Digest, Vol 35, Issue 8

Send PDI mailing list submissions to
pdi@illinoisprogressives.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of PDI digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Illinois progressives (Gary Kleppe)
2. Re: Illinois progressives (mayatoddbob@aim.com)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:12:32 -0400
From: Gary Kleppe <gary@garykleppe.org>
Subject: [PDI] Illinois progressives
To: pdi@illinoisprogressives.org
Message-ID: <20090313151232.v40d8uxocg8wg84k@webmail.garykleppe.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"

Subject header changed, as for some reason Horde crashes if I have the
name of a certain large Internet provider anywhere in the message.

Quoting Bob:

> It was quite clear if you look at how this group is listed.? You
> really shouldn't be using the name 'illinoisprogressives" if it is
> just a bunch of progressive Democrats, which I believe this group is.

A domain name isn't a claim to represent everyone involved with its topic.

weather.com represents one particular weather service, not everybody
interested in weather.

fair.org represents one particular group of media critics, not
everyone interested in fairness.

garykleppe.org is my personal site, even though there at least two or
three other people named "Gary Kleppe".

I could go on, but the point is there, should you choose to accept it.

If, by the way, there's a group that could be definitively said to
represent all progressives in Illinois and is interested in this
domain, have them contact me and we'll see if we can work out a
purchase or sharing agreement.


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:58:07 -0400
From: mayatoddbob@aim.com
Subject: Re: [PDI] Illinois progressives
To: pdi@illinoisprogressives.org
Message-ID: <8CB722D29DBEFA0-106C-719@WEBMAIL-MC15.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

We both made our points.

Now I'll unsubscribe.

????????? Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Kleppe <gary@garykleppe.org>
To: Bob Mueller <mayatoddbob@aim.com>
Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 1:12 pm
Subject: [PDI] Illinois progressives


Subject header changed, as for some reason Horde crashes if I have the name of a certain large Internet provider anywhere in the message.?
?
Quoting Bob:?
?
> It was quite clear if you look at how this group is listed.? You > really shouldn't be using the name 'illinoisprogressives" if it is > just a bunch of progressive Democrats, which I believe this group is.?
?
A domain name isn't a claim to represent everyone involved with its topic.?
?
weather.com represents one particular weather service, not everybody interested in weather.?
?
fair.org represents one particular group of media critics, not everyone interested in fairness.?
?
garykleppe.org is my personal site, even though there at least two or three other people named "Gary Kleppe".?
?
I could go on, but the point is there, should you choose to accept it.?
?
If, by the way, there's a group that could be definitively said to represent all progressives in Illinois and is interested in this domain, have them contact me and we'll see if we can work out a purchase or sharing agreement.?
?
?
_______________________________________________?
PDI mailing list?
PDI@illinoisprogressives.org?
http://illinoisprogressives.org/mailman/listinfo/pdi_illinoisprogressives.org?
?
This message was sent to mayatoddbob@aim.com.?
To unsubscribe, visit the URL above, or email webmaster@illinoisprogressives.org for assistance.?

------------------------------

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End of PDI Digest, Vol 35, Issue 8
**********************************
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Re: [PDI] Banks scramble to return funds

"For Rothenberg, the banker in Century City, the prospect of unlimited
government intervention was too much.

Comment: Good thing the darn government wasn't meddling in banking the
last 8 years. Think of the mess we'd be in.

'The real issue was the clause that the government could change any of
the terms," he said. "It was so open-ended.'

Comment: Dude must have never been on the receiving end of a credit
card agreement. Imagine the other side saying it can change the rules
any time.

Of course the real indignity of the TARP funds is the specter of
accountability. The people are getting uppity, wanting to know what
goes on in the offices of their betters. Where is Dick Cheney when we
need him? Secrecy is for the rulers, transparency and suspicion for
the lowly subjects.


On Mar 14, 2009, at 9:16 PM, Daniel Stafford wrote:

> Banks scramble to return funds <http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fi-tainted-money14-2009mar14,0,4358692.story?track=rss
> >
>
> Tainted money, now if they can just figure out how to give it back.
>
> L.A. Times

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This message was sent to aquarianm.pd-il@blogger.com.
To unsubscribe, visit the URL above, or email webmaster@illinoisprogressives.org for assistance.

[PDI] Banks scramble to return funds

Banks scramble to return funds
<http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fi-tainted-money14-2009mar14,0,4358692.story?track=rss>

Tainted money, now if they can just figure out how to give it back.

L.A. Times
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[PDI] HONK FOR PEACE, Concert to spread message for peace on March 15th, Candidate Forums at Hadley, COD, DAWN Meeting March 31st, Absentee ballots, early voting available MON

HONK FOR PEACE
Members of the DuPage Peace Through Justice Coalition (DPTJC) and others
will hold a "honk for peace" rally from 2:00-3:30 p.m. on Sunday, March
15, in Glen Ellyn. It will take place along Roosevelt Road in front of
Trader Joe's (680 Roosevelt Rd).

Please join us with signs and banners calling on motorists to "honk for
peace" in support of ending the U.S. occupation of Iraq and bringing the
U.S. troops home now.

And please remember that we have "honk for peace" rallies on the third
Sunday of every month.

<http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.holycowcompany.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/insertthis.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.holycowcompany.com/blog/peace-on-earth-and-the-holy-cow-store/&usg=___JK03PUa6fKWIGB7o8wDbWW5bJI=&h=613&w=613&sz=145&hl=en&start=23&tbnid=q6FU3UFBzI9zsM:&tbnh=136&tbnw=136&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpeace%2Bon%2Bearth%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20>

New Classic Singers concert to spread a message for peace
http://dailyherald.com/story/?id=277247<http://dailyherald.com/story/?id=277247>
New Classic Singers will continue its 27th concert season this weekend with "Circles of Peace," a hopeful and joyous concert with a peaceful message.

The celebration of music on Sunday, March 15, will be conducted by chorus founder and music director Lee R. Kesselman, with accompaniment by William Buhr on the keyboard. The concert also will feature renowned Zen painter and peace activist Kazuaki Tanahashi, who will create unique works of art as the music is performed.

"He is quite amazing in many different ways," Kesselman said. "He's a foremost Zen scholar and translator of Zen Buddhism, a teacher of the old style calligraphy, and he's a very famous painter.

"He'll be painting in real time. That style of Zen painting uses very few strokes."

The art will be for sale after the concert, with proceeds going to A World Without Armies, a charity that seeks demilitarization of nations with a focus on peacemaking.

Kesselman said the art will be priced to sell.

"Compared to his other works of art, these will be a steal," he said. "We're going to make this happen in a way that we will have no paintings left."

The tie-in of peace is a timely one, Kesselman said, and a recurrent one for the New Classic Singers.

"It is always the right time to talk about peace," he said. "But especially now, with our country fighting two wars."

Begun in 1982, the New Classic Singers is a choral ensemble that boasts some of the best choral talent from all over the Chicago area. Members include soloists, educators and conductors. The programs often have a peace theme and have attracted a loyal following.

"Circles of Peace" will include music from such composers as Alice Parker, Herbert Howells and Kirke Mechem. Also performed will be music on Buddhist themes, Japanese folk music, music about circles and Japanese composer Hirayoshi Takekuni's piece, "When the Skies Lost Small Birds."

The concert also will feature the premiere of "Sensoo," composed by Kesselman after he visited Hiroshima in 2005. The words of Pope John Paul II provided the creative catalyst to write the piece.

Kesselman had traveled to Kyoto, Japan, in 2005 to attend the World Symposium of Choral Music. His trip coincided with the 60th anniversary of the bomb blast and he decided to visit Hiroshima, he said.

He described an atmosphere that belied the grim history at Peace Park, the epicenter of the bomb blast.

"People had gathered from all around the world. There was a sense of rebirth," he recalled. "People were there to talk about peace in a place where so many people had died."

Just as doves were released, commemorating the moment of the bomb blast, Kesselman saw the words of the pontiff, an excerpt of one of his 1981 speeches, written in English before him on the program:" War is the work of human beings. War is the destruction of human life. War is death."

"It's an anti-war message," Kesselman said. "I was there and inspired to write."

Sensoo is a setting of a Japanese translation of those words.

"Circles of Peace" begins at 4 p.m. Sunday, March 15, at McAninch Arts Center at College of DuPage, 425 Fawell Blvd., Glen Ellyn.

For ticket information, visit atthemac.org or call (630) 942-4000. Tickets are available at the arts center ticket office. To view the art and works of Zen painter Kazuaki Tanahashi, visit brushmind.net<http://www.brushmind.net/>.

League of Women Voters Candidates' Forum
Sunday, March 22, 2009
1:00 PM to 4:30 PM
Hadley Junior High School

Candidate Forum at COD March 31st
SRC 2800 March 31
3:30 - 5:30 p.m. Doors open at 3 p.m.
An informal reception and hors d'ouevres follow until 7 p.m.
The forum is sponsored by CODAA, the CPA, and the Student Leadership Council

SPRING DAWN MEETING TUESDAY MARCH 31st
Join us for the first DAWN meeting of 2009!
We'll discuss and try to make sense of the current state of affairs at COD
Invited are those close to the situation including attorney Shawn Collins, who will explain the facts of the explosive court case that was recently dismissed .
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=273046&src=1<about:blank>


POLLWATCHERS
Get your credentials! I'll have them that night!
You know who you are!

Tuesday March 31st
Glen Ellyn Public Library
400 Duane St.
Glen Ellyn IL 60137
1st Floor Meeting Room
7:30 pm - 9pm
( next meeting will be in June)

ABSENTEE BALLOTS AVAILABLE NOW:
Call and get your absentee ballot for the April 7th election:
http://www.dupageelections.com/pages.asp?pageid=229<http://www.dupageelections.com/pages.asp?pageid=229>
EARLY VOTING LOCATIONS HERE:
http://www.dupageelections.com/pages.asp?pageid=1130<http://www.dupageelections.com/pages.asp?pageid=1130>
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Friday, March 13, 2009

Re: [PDI] Illinois progressives

We both made our points.

Now I'll unsubscribe.

????????? Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Kleppe <gary@garykleppe.org>
To: Bob Mueller <mayatoddbob@aim.com>
Sent: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 1:12 pm
Subject: [PDI] Illinois progressives


Subject header changed, as for some reason Horde crashes if I have the name of a certain large Internet provider anywhere in the message.?
?
Quoting Bob:?
?
> It was quite clear if you look at how this group is listed.? You > really shouldn't be using the name 'illinoisprogressives" if it is > just a bunch of progressive Democrats, which I believe this group is.?
?
A domain name isn't a claim to represent everyone involved with its topic.?
?
weather.com represents one particular weather service, not everybody interested in weather.?
?
fair.org represents one particular group of media critics, not everyone interested in fairness.?
?
garykleppe.org is my personal site, even though there at least two or three other people named "Gary Kleppe".?
?
I could go on, but the point is there, should you choose to accept it.?
?
If, by the way, there's a group that could be definitively said to represent all progressives in Illinois and is interested in this domain, have them contact me and we'll see if we can work out a purchase or sharing agreement.?
?
?
_______________________________________________?
PDI mailing list?
PDI@illinoisprogressives.org?
http://illinoisprogressives.org/mailman/listinfo/pdi_illinoisprogressives.org?
?
This message was sent to mayatoddbob@aim.com.?
To unsubscribe, visit the URL above, or email webmaster@illinoisprogressives.org for assistance.?

_______________________________________________
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This message was sent to aquarianm.pd-il@blogger.com.
To unsubscribe, visit the URL above, or email webmaster@illinoisprogressives.org for assistance.

[PDI] Illinois progressives

Subject header changed, as for some reason Horde crashes if I have the
name of a certain large Internet provider anywhere in the message.

Quoting Bob:

> It was quite clear if you look at how this group is listed.? You
> really shouldn't be using the name 'illinoisprogressives" if it is
> just a bunch of progressive Democrats, which I believe this group is.

A domain name isn't a claim to represent everyone involved with its topic.

weather.com represents one particular weather service, not everybody
interested in weather.

fair.org represents one particular group of media critics, not
everyone interested in fairness.

garykleppe.org is my personal site, even though there at least two or
three other people named "Gary Kleppe".

I could go on, but the point is there, should you choose to accept it.

If, by the way, there's a group that could be definitively said to
represent all progressives in Illinois and is interested in this
domain, have them contact me and we'll see if we can work out a
purchase or sharing agreement.


_______________________________________________
PDI mailing list
PDI@illinoisprogressives.org
http://illinoisprogressives.org/mailman/listinfo/pdi_illinoisprogressives.org

This message was sent to aquarianm.pd-il@blogger.com.
To unsubscribe, visit the URL above, or email webmaster@illinoisprogressives.org for assistance.

Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

It was quite clear if you look at how this group is listed.? You really shouldn't be using the name 'illinoisprogressives" if it is just a bunch of progressive Democrats, which I believe this group is.

?????????????? Bob

webmaster@illinoisprogressives.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Kleppe <gary@garykleppe.org>
To: Bob Mueller <mayatoddbob@aim.com>
Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 9:27 pm
Subject: Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:25:03 -0400, you wrote:

>I'd like to get off the PDI list, but you seem to have usurped Illinois
progressives.
>
>It was weird that you closed an earlier email with:
>
>-Gary Kleppe, list moderator
>-do as I say, not....
>
>Could you please clarify whether this is PDI or Illinois Progressives?

I can't clarify, because I don't think I understand what you're
asking.

For anyone who would like to get off the PDI list, there are
instructions on how to unsubscribe. If they aren't clear to you and
you'd still like to unsub, email me *privately* and I'll be happy to
assist you.

I assume the "Illinois Progressives" you are talking about is a Yahoo
email list which we're both on. That list was started by several
people other than me and I have no moderator authority on it. I don't
know why you think I've "usurped" it; any postings I've made on that
group represent my opinions only and I've never purported to be part
of that list's management.

The PDI list (and associated web site) does run on a domain called
illinoisprogressives.org. This domain belongs to PDI and is hosted at
my expense and adminned by me. Despite the similar name it has nothing
to do with the Yahoo list you're talking about.


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Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

It was quite clear if you look at how this group is listed.? You really shouldn't be using the name 'illinoisprogressives" if it is just a bunch of progressive Democrats, which I believe this group is.

?????????????? Bob

webmaster@illinoisprogressives.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Kleppe <gary@garykleppe.org>
To: Bob Mueller <mayatoddbob@aim.com>
Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 9:27 pm
Subject: Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:25:03 -0400, you wrote:

>I'd like to get off the PDI list, but you seem to have usurped Illinois
progressives.
>
>It was weird that you closed an earlier email with:
>
>-Gary Kleppe, list moderator
>-do as I say, not....
>
>Could you please clarify whether this is PDI or Illinois Progressives?

I can't clarify, because I don't think I understand what you're
asking.

For anyone who would like to get off the PDI list, there are
instructions on how to unsubscribe. If they aren't clear to you and
you'd still like to unsub, email me *privately* and I'll be happy to
assist you.

I assume the "Illinois Progressives" you are talking about is a Yahoo
email list which we're both on. That list was started by several
people other than me and I have no moderator authority on it. I don't
know why you think I've "usurped" it; any postings I've made on that
group represent my opinions only and I've never purported to be part
of that list's management.

The PDI list (and associated web site) does run on a domain called
illinoisprogressives.org. This domain belongs to PDI and is hosted at
my expense and adminned by me. Despite the similar name it has nothing
to do with the Yahoo list you're talking about.


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Thursday, March 12, 2009

Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:25:03 -0400, you wrote:

>I'd like to get off the PDI list, but you seem to have usurped Illinois progressives.
>
>It was weird that you closed an earlier email with:
>
>-Gary Kleppe, list moderator
>-do as I say, not....
>
>Could you please clarify whether this is PDI or Illinois Progressives?

I can't clarify, because I don't think I understand what you're
asking.

For anyone who would like to get off the PDI list, there are
instructions on how to unsubscribe. If they aren't clear to you and
you'd still like to unsub, email me *privately* and I'll be happy to
assist you.

I assume the "Illinois Progressives" you are talking about is a Yahoo
email list which we're both on. That list was started by several
people other than me and I have no moderator authority on it. I don't
know why you think I've "usurped" it; any postings I've made on that
group represent my opinions only and I've never purported to be part
of that list's management.

The PDI list (and associated web site) does run on a domain called
illinoisprogressives.org. This domain belongs to PDI and is hosted at
my expense and adminned by me. Despite the similar name it has nothing
to do with the Yahoo list you're talking about.


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Re: [PDI] from qualogistics@aol.com again

Ok #1 I did not take offensive by the "bad words" in a recent email.?I learned a long time the use of foul language is worthless in any discussions and even in arguements. I do agree with Kat and Gary (thanks again for providing this forum) that foul language should be discouraged.

#2 I loved the irony and coincidence in this news article that detailed the activities of the recent mouthpiece and "leader" of the GOP in Cook County when describling what Police are calling prostitutes: "I was not in a compromising position other than I had friends over to my house," Skoien said.

Here is the article: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-skoien-wife-dispute-12mar12,0,7303553.story

Now I take no satisfaction that the family has been impacted and maybe someone was hit but other than that the party of "family values" has given us some more examples of these values - just bad ones at that!


Don Kirchenberg

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Kleppe <gary@garykleppe.org>
To: D Kirchenberg <qualogistics@aol.com>
Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com


Eugene,

Once again, I don't care whether you like or don't like Franken.
Personally, I don't think supporting Franken is the best use of my
resources either, which is one reason I'm not making plans to attend
the dinner Don mentioned.

I *do* care whether you waste my time by arguing about it on an email
list that I'm spending my own hard-earned money on in order to promote
productive political activism. And since asking nicely didn't work,
I've set your subscription to moderated. I'll cheerfully do the same
for anybody who persists in making personal attacks against other list
members and beating dead horse arguments after being told to stop.

Have a nice day right back at you.


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Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

I'd like to get off the PDI list, but you seem to have usurped Illinois progressives.

It was weird that you closed an earlier email with:

-Gary Kleppe, list moderator
-do as I say, not....

Could you please clarify whether this is PDI or Illinois Progressives?

???????????? Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Kleppe <gary@garykleppe.org>
To: Bob Mueller <mayatoddbob@aim.com>
Sent: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

Eugene,

Once again, I don't care whether you like or don't like Franken.
Personally, I don't think supporting Franken is the best use of my
resources either, which is one reason I'm not making plans to attend
the dinner Don mentioned.

I *do* care whether you waste my time by arguing about it on an email
list that I'm spending my own hard-earned money on in order to promote
productive political activism. And since asking nicely didn't work,
I've set your subscription to moderated. I'll cheerfully do the same
for anybody who persists in making personal attacks against other list
members and beating dead horse arguments after being told to stop.

Have a nice day right back at you.


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[PDI] March 14, 2009 Chicago Actions in Chicago

For those who wish to march against the Iraq war- ( along with some other causes that have been " bundled together" )
This is a permitted event which DAWN has endorsed .

http://www.chicagomassaction.org/<http://www.chicagomassaction.org/>

Please forward widely.

On the 6th Anniversary of the U.S. invasion of Iraq --
End the Occupations NOW! -- Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine
STOP the Government's War on Immigrants!
12 Noon * Saturday, March 14, 2009

The 12 noon opening rally is easily accessible via the Pink Line el (take it to the "California" stop). The rally is just 2-3 blocks away from there. After a short rally, we will march to the heart of Pilsen -- 18th / Blue Island / Loomis -- for a closing rally.

For those who are driving and parking their cars at the opening rally site, getting from the end of the march back to where you parked is very easy via the Pink Line el.

Maps showing the march route are available at http://chicagomassaction.org/03-transportation.html<http://chicagomassaction.org/03-transportation.html>

For more information on this Saturday's action, go to www.ChicagoMassAction.org<http://www.chicagomassaction.org/>

And on March 21st -- join us in DC for a National mach against the wars. For transportation and other information about the DC action, go to www.chicagoanswer.net<http://www.chicagoanswer.net/>

Here is the current list of endorsers for the Chicago action:
8th Day Center for Justice

AL-Awda, The Palestine Right to Return Coalition

Albany Park, North Park, Mayfair Neighbors for Peace & Justice

American Friends Service Committee

American Muslims for Palestine

ANSWER Chicago

Arab American Action Network (AAAN)

Campus Anti-War Network - Depaul

Caucus of Rank and File Educators (CORE)

Centro de Trabajadores Chicago Interfaith

Chicago Area CodePINK

Chicago Coalition Against War & Racism

Chicago Committee to Defend the Bill of Rights

Chicago Committee to Free the Cuban 5

Chicago Democratic Socialists of America

Chicago Dyke March Collective

Chicago Free The Cuban Five Committee

Chicago Industrial Workers of the World

Chicago Labor Against the War

Chicago Media Action

Chicago Progressive Examiner

Christian Peacemakers Team

Code Pink NW Indiana Chapter

Comité Anti-Militarización (CAMI)

Comite Solidaridad Dupage

Committee of Rank and File Educators (CORE)

Cook County Green Party

De Kalb Interfaith Network for Peace and Justice

d'Last Studio

DuPage Against War Now (DAWN)

Evanston Immigrant Advocacy Project

Families 4 Peace

Fellowship of Reconciliation - Chicago Chapter

Fox Valley Citizens for Peace & Justice

Freedom Road Socialist Organization

Friends of Leon Berger

Gay Liberation Network

Hammerhard Media Works

International Socialist Organization

International Solidarity Movement

Iranians for Peace and Human Rights

Iraq Veterans Against the War

Kairos Community

Kalpulli Nahuali

La Otra

La Voz de los de Abajo

Labor Beat/Labor Express

Little Village Environmental Justice Organization

Lone Lantern

March 10th Committee

Mayan Calendar News

Meztizarte

Military Families Speak Out

Jorge Mujica

Nahui Ollin Danza Azteca

Near West Citizens for Peace & Justice

Neighbors for Peace - Arlington Heights

Neighbors for Peace - Evanston

News and Letters

Nicaragua Solidarity Network

North Shore Coalition for Peace and Justice

Northwest Suburban Peace & Education Project

North Suburban Peace Initiative

Northwestern Students Against War & Occupation

Our Lady of Guadalupe Anglican Catholic Mission

P&SC @ 57th St Mof

Palestine Activist Network

Palestine Solidarity Group

Party for Socialism and Liberation

Pax Christi St. Gertrude

Peace and Justice Club - Wilbur Wright College

Peace Pledge

Pilsen Environmental Rights & Reform Organization (PERRO)

Roosevelt University Activist Alliance

Sex Workers Outreach Project Chicago

Southwest Youth Collaborative

Steve Alesch for 2009 Green Party DuPage County Winfield Township Trustee

Students for Justice in Palestine - Northwestern

Students for Justice in Palestine - UIC

United Shi'a Youth of Chicago

Veterans For Peace

Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Chicago Chapter

Voices for Creative Non-Violence

Wellington Avenue United Church of Christ

Workers World Party

World Can't Wait Chicago Chapter
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Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

Eugene,

Once again, I don't care whether you like or don't like Franken.
Personally, I don't think supporting Franken is the best use of my
resources either, which is one reason I'm not making plans to attend
the dinner Don mentioned.

I *do* care whether you waste my time by arguing about it on an email
list that I'm spending my own hard-earned money on in order to promote
productive political activism. And since asking nicely didn't work,
I've set your subscription to moderated. I'll cheerfully do the same
for anybody who persists in making personal attacks against other list
members and beating dead horse arguments after being told to stop.

Have a nice day right back at you.


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Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

Eugene Costa wrote:

""Bad words"? The Neo-Cons and the Born Agains will be trying to ban "strong language" again, just as their predecessors banned booze.""

While I am neither a Neo-Con nor Born Again, I would appreciate it if people refrained from profanity. It distracts from the message and leaves me with a negative impression of the writer.


Thanks.


--
Kat

Public Google Calendar:
<http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=engageinactivism%40gmail.com&ctz=America/Chicago>
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Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

Each to his own.

"Bad words"? The Neo-Cons and the Born Agains will be trying to ban "strong language" again, just as their predecessors banned booze.

You are completely welcome to your weak tea.

They were many problems with Clinton (the attack on Serbia, for example, and getting rid of long-term bonds), and another was his tendency to lie and mollify.

If he had just stood up to the American people and said, "Yeah, I had a blow job in the White House, and that's my business", he would not have been impeached and the US would be a much different place.

Instead you got Bush, who did not even win a majority, and walked into the office like he owned the whole country, with Cheney telling you all to go fuck yourselves.

The Right Wing are the distilled esssence of hypocrisy, honed for centuries in the US.

You are letting them define the game.

One Goerge Carlin is worth a thousand Al Frankens.

"Majority"--what majority did Bush have?  Seventy per cent of the electorate wanted out of Iraq and thought Bush was a moron.

And what do you get midterm--Pelosi?

What a joke.

I stand by what I said about Franken, and the way I said it.

Abbie Hoffman was a brilliant man, and the closest thing to Tom Paine that has existed in the US since 1776.

Have a nice day.

EAC

L'observation consiste simplement
en l'intérêt jubilant montré par l'enfant
à la vue de sa propre image dans un miroir....


--- On Thu, 3/12/09, Ron Weiner <ronweiner1@comcast.net> wrote:
From: Ron Weiner <ronweiner1@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com
To: "Gene Costa" <costaeugene@yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 12:50 PM

Gary's point that "...while there's presently no prohibition
against
so-called "bad words" on this list, be aware that use of them is
likely to
put off some people who might otherwise be inclined to listen to you..."
is
very well-said.

And that's what my response to Costa (F Al Franken) was all about.

I'm done.

Ron Weiner

-----Original Message-----
From: pdi-bounces@illinoisprogressives.org
[mailto:pdi-bounces@illinoisprogressives.org] On Behalf Of Gary Kleppe
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 7:40 AM
To: ronweiner1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

Not to put too fine a point on it, but... knock it off, guys.

If you feel supporting Franken is the best use of your time and/or
money, then go for it. If not, then rather than tear down someone
else's idea, try finding and suggesting alternatives. There are
single-payer bills at both the federal and state level which need to
be pushed. We still have two wars to end. And township and municipal
elections are April 7; look around in your area to see if there are
candidates you think you can trust. (Personally I'm biased toward this
slate: http://www.yorkdemocrats.org/elections.php)

It's easy to tear down and hard to build up. Telling each other how
*not* to spend our time is not a productive use of our time.

Also, while there's presently no prohibition against so-called "bad
words" on this list, be aware that use of them is likely to put off
some people who might otherwise be inclined to listen to you.


-Gary Kleppe, list moderator
-do as I say, not....

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g

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Re: [PDI] Dennis Kucinich describes One Simple Reform that will fixthe leading cause of world's ills

Geraldine Perry wrote:
>
> The monetarists that I follow are NOT agents of the system - nor are
> they paid a single red cent for what they do. In fact, many have been
> persecuted or worse. Byron Dale for example was beaten to a pulp and had
> his ranch confiscated for his efforts.

One might want to read the decision of the of the United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit on Dale's case. In the words of the court:

"Byron Dale [was] a South Dakota rancher who was indebted to the Production Credit Association (PCA) for some $400,000 arising out of loans provided by PCA to Dale. Under the terms of the loans, PCA could come onto Dale's property at a
reasonable time and inspect the secured collateral (cattle and calves) without trespassing. The record shows that after Dale was granted the loans, he began branding calves with a new brand and laundering them through his son's ranch, thereby
selling them free of the PCA lien. Dale also determined not to repay the loans in money but instead attempted in 1983 to tender a note payable in hay and silage. PCA rejected the tender and attempted to inspect the cattle. Dale refused to
allow PCA officials onto his ranch, stating that 'blood would run' before he would allow them on his property" (http://altlaw.org/v1/cases/477064).

Dale was also a defender of the "tax protester" Gordon Kahl, an anti-Semitic, "neo- Nazi warrior" against the US government, which he believed had been taken over by "Jews" (http://tinyurl.com/cvaf77). Kahl "had stayed at the Dale ranch in
January of 1983; and Dale stated to federal officers who were looking for Kahl in late February of 1983 that he would hide Kahl at his ranch if he came there" (http://altlaw.org/v1/cases/477064). This was after Kahl was allegedly involved in
the fatal shooting of two US Marshalls.

In other words, Dale is Ms. Perry's kind of "expert"--a crackpot and a defender of anti-Semites and fascists.

--Kevin

P.S. I will have no more to say on this subject. Ms. Perry, I'm sure, will come up with a tortured defense of Dale and Kahl; and debating that would be like debating a Holocaust denier or a member of the Flat Earth Society. I'm not going to
do it.

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Re: [PDI] Dennis Kucinich describes One Simple Reform that will fix the leading cause of world's ills

Reply embedded below:

Eugene Costa wrote:
> The mechanics are really simple--one will not get from point A to point B in regard to the collapse or the currency and the economy without nationalizing oil first.
>

Oil is a tool, just like gold has always been, to manipulate the masses.
Do some digging of your own as to how the oil monopoly (primarily
Anglo-Saxon) got in bed with the banking elite in order to create the
Petro dollar. You can start with Century of War by F. William Engdahl.
> I am not interested in arguing the point or making a case. It is too late for that.
>
> If you and others cannot see the simple mechanics there is no point in talking about it.
>
May I submit it is you who do not understand the mechanics?
> It will all wash out soon enough.
>
> The US right now is not in the position of creating any new currency--period.
>
> Most simply do not realize how bad things are.
>
OH contraire. Many do, including myself!
> As far as your theories are concerned, there is no question thatUS debt-credit is a disaster that sends money to the top, both privately and through the Federal government, as Kucinich says.
>
> That is exactly what it is intended to do, and has been intended to do from the beginning.
>
> Yes, currency should be debt-free, but there are many different ways to manage that.
>
> As it stands you and most of the economists and money theorists are missing a central point.
>
> No matter what the monetarists say (they are agents of the system and say what they are paid to say, consciously or unconsciously) debt-credit quasi-currency is not a commodity, and that is not, as you hold, what the system "allows".
>
The monetarists that I follow are NOT agents of the system - nor are
they paid a single red cent for what they do. In fact, many have been
persecuted or worse. Byron Dale for example was beaten to a pulp and had
his ranch confiscated for his efforts.

As to money being a commodity, even Aristotle himself described it as
such - when money is allowed "to make a gain of itself"

> The collapse is a clear indication that it is not allowed at all, whatever the clowns say.
>
> It is more complex than that, and things are much worse than you seem to think.
>
I have absolutely NO idea where you come to the conclusion that I do not
understand just how bad things are. Please read carefully my article
"Pulling Ourselves from the Economic Abyss" or read about the first
great global crash of 1345, the after effects of which reverberated
through the REAL economy for 100 years afterwords.

As to being complex, that is only because the system as it operates is
designed to be complex, and economics schools are tools to increase said
complexity.
> I might phrase your blind spot very precisely in a few words or phrases that will never occur to you in a hundred years, but if I did so you would surely tell me, as you have before, I am simply putting what you say in different words.
>
> So why bother?
>
Well, may I submit that kind of attitude is exactly what got us here to
begin with. As to key words etc, what I describe is in fact what never
occurs to most people, including economists (although happily that is
changing at least in some sectors)

the truth is that it is NOT TOO LATE - IF WE GOT THE CONGRESS TO DO ITS
CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY!

> I am not against tthe gist of what you say, and agree with Kucincih, but much of the theory and analysis implied below is egregiously in error, not only historically but economically.
>
I suggest you read some 'alternative history" beginning with books by
Alexander DelMar, and checking the discussion of Franklin, Jefferson and
others on the subject. The analysis is far from being "egregiously in
error".

Regards,

gerip

> All the best.
>
> EAC
>
>
>
> L'observation consiste simplement
> en l'intérêt jubilant montré par l'enfant
> à la vue de sa propre image dans un miroir....
>
>
> --- On Wed, 3/11/09, Geraldine Perry <healthadvantage@comcast.net> wrote:
> From: Geraldine Perry <healthadvantage@comcast.net>
> Subject: [PDI] Dennis Kucinich describes One Simple Reform that will fix the leading cause of world's ills
> To: "Gene Costa" <costaeugene@yahoo.com>
> Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 5:44 PM
>
> LESS than 1 1/2 minutes of your time:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_-QRKyu6g
>
> Call/contact your Congress critter today and as often as you can and demand
> that Congress support Dennis Kucinich and do its Constitutional duty to coin
> (create) money and regulate the value thereof.
>
> If you still believe our money and currency should be backed by precious metals
> or that it is the government (and not the banking elite) that is the root of the
> problem - please CAREFULLY watch these three you tube segments, less than 25
> minutes total time to watch all 3 segments, beginning with this one:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E0UPBtmTb0
>
> Following are some of my additions/reiterations to Dale's presentation to
> help dispel common myths:
>
> 1. The common myth is that debt free Constitutional money leads to mischief -
> when in fact it is debt-based money that has ALWAYS led to mischief and much
> worse. This is true whether metals or paper are used as money. When money is
> created as debt, be it paper, or metal, it is treated as a commodity which
> allows those in control to obtain monopoly power over it, and government is
> turned into the servant of the money power/monopoly (as Jefferson foretold).
> This is why one of the Rothschild's said "I care not what puppet is
> placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire, the man that controls
> Britain's money supply controls the British Empire.And I control the money
> supply." This has been going on for 1000s of years!
>
> 2. Today, we have to keep reminding ourselves that although currency is printed
> at the Bureau of Engraving, this is only a TINY fraction of the money supply -
> and it is ONLY printed AFTER the government has in effect borrowed more
> "money" from the privately owned banking system. In short - our
> government does NOT create our money - the private banking system does, and the
> banking system is the prime beneficiary - NOT the government! (Hence a
> Rothschild scenario is in operation).
>
> 3. The money creation system I describe in my book and in the slide
> presentation on my website (which is closely aligned with the American Monetary
> Institute, with one important element added, as described in the intro page to
> my slide presentation) minimizes, if not eliminates that kind of "you
> scratch my back" scenario through transparency, extinguishment and in
> response to the demand coming directly from the people's own productive and
> consumptive capacity.
>
> 4. As Byron Dale said - money is a TOOL, nothing more - nothing less. I urge
> you to read carefully my page on What is Money (as well as Quotes on Gold and
> notable quotes pages):
> http://www.thetwofacesofmoney.com/index.php/Site/WhatIsMoney
>
> 5. As to metals having an advantage because they are limited this is the EXACT
> reason why they should NOT be used as money (something argued hard and often by
> Franklin, Jefferson, Lincoln and others). Recall that fractional reserve
> (creating money as debt) was invented at a time when metals were used as money.
>
> 6. We labor under the media-created myth that the government prints money, when
> in fact money is created (mostly as computer digits) when debt is issued.
>
> Consider that today the total outstanding debt (public and private) is FAR
> greater than our money supply. Thus our total debt is $53 trillion and climbing
> rapidly, while out money supply, using the broadest and now unpublished measure
> of M3 is around $14 trillion (give or take a trillion). If you use Fed measures
> of M1 + M2, the money supply is just $7.7 trillion.
>
> HOW can there be too much money in the system??? There is TOO MUCH DEBT --- NOT
> too much money!
>
> As the ending segment of The Money Masters details, this fact has justified the
> plunder of other people's resources all through the ages, and is the reason
> countries around the world are now disintegrating.
>
> It's well past time we stopped this travesty. PLEASE join this crusade, and
> contact your Congress critters now and often on this subject.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PDI mailing list
> PDI@illinoisprogressives.org
> http://illinoisprogressives.org/mailman/listinfo/pdi_illinoisprogressives.org
>
> This message was sent to costaeugene@yahoo.com.
> To unsubscribe, visit the URL above, or email
> webmaster@illinoisprogressives.org for assistance.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> PDI@illinoisprogressives.org
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>
> This message was sent to healthadvantage@comcast.net.
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Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

Gary's point that "...while there's presently no prohibition against
so-called "bad words" on this list, be aware that use of them is likely to
put off some people who might otherwise be inclined to listen to you..." is
very well-said.

And that's what my response to Costa (F Al Franken) was all about.

I'm done.

Ron Weiner

-----Original Message-----
From: pdi-bounces@illinoisprogressives.org
[mailto:pdi-bounces@illinoisprogressives.org] On Behalf Of Gary Kleppe
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 7:40 AM
To: ronweiner1@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

Not to put too fine a point on it, but... knock it off, guys.

If you feel supporting Franken is the best use of your time and/or
money, then go for it. If not, then rather than tear down someone
else's idea, try finding and suggesting alternatives. There are
single-payer bills at both the federal and state level which need to
be pushed. We still have two wars to end. And township and municipal
elections are April 7; look around in your area to see if there are
candidates you think you can trust. (Personally I'm biased toward this
slate: http://www.yorkdemocrats.org/elections.php)

It's easy to tear down and hard to build up. Telling each other how
*not* to spend our time is not a productive use of our time.

Also, while there's presently no prohibition against so-called "bad
words" on this list, be aware that use of them is likely to put off
some people who might otherwise be inclined to listen to you.


-Gary Kleppe, list moderator
-do as I say, not....

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g

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[PDI] Meeting March 19, with guest speaker

The monthly meeting of Progressive Democrats of Illinois - West
Suburban will take place on March 19, at the usual place: The Danada
IHoP, at the corner of Butterfield and Naperville Roads in Wheaton.
The meeting starts at 7 PM; come earlier to chat and order food.

This month we will have a guest speaker, Celia Christensen,
Environmental Outreach Coordinator for Citizens Utility Board
(http://www.citizensutilityboard.org/), who will talk to us about her
organization's environmental efforts related to energy efficiency.

Please attend if at all possible. Ms. Christensen is driving out to
our meeting at no cost to us, and if there are only three people in
the room to listen then we'll have wasted her time.

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Re: [PDI] qualogistics@aol.com

Not to put too fine a point on it, but... knock it off, guys.

If you feel supporting Franken is the best use of your time and/or
money, then go for it. If not, then rather than tear down someone
else's idea, try finding and suggesting alternatives. There are
single-payer bills at both the federal and state level which need to
be pushed. We still have two wars to end. And township and municipal
elections are April 7; look around in your area to see if there are
candidates you think you can trust. (Personally I'm biased toward this
slate: http://www.yorkdemocrats.org/elections.php)

It's easy to tear down and hard to build up. Telling each other how
*not* to spend our time is not a productive use of our time.

Also, while there's presently no prohibition against so-called "bad
words" on this list, be aware that use of them is likely to put off
some people who might otherwise be inclined to listen to you.


-Gary Kleppe, list moderator
-do as I say, not....

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PDI mailing list
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Wednesday, March 11, 2009

[PDI] Put Single-Payer on the Table

http://www.truthout.org/031109HA

<http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php>


Put Single-Payer on the Table <http://www.truthout.org/031109HA>

Tuesday 10 March 2009

by: Amy Goodman | Visit article original @ *Truthdig*
<http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090310_put_single_payer_on_the_table/>

photo
In front of Blue Cross headquarters, as part of a larger demonstration,
a protester advocates for single-payer universal health care. (Photo:
ChiSPAN)

President Barack Obama promises health-care reform, but he has taken
single-payer health care off the table. Single-payer is the system that
removes private insurance companies from the picture; the government
pays all the bills, but health-care delivery remains private. People
still get their choice of what doctor to go to and what hospital to use.
Single-payer reduces the administrative costs and removes the profit
that insurance companies add to health-care delivery. Single-payer
solutions, however, get almost no space in the debate.

A study just released by Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, a media
watchdog group, found that in the week before Obama's health-care
summit, of the hundreds of stories that appeared in major newspapers and
on the networks, "only five included the views of advocates of
single-payer - none of which appeared on television." Most opinion
columns that mentioned single-payer were written by opponents.

Congress is considering H.R. 676, "Expanded and Improved Medicare
for All," sponsored by John Conyers, D-Mich., with 64 co-sponsors. Yet
even when Rep. Conyers directly asked Obama at a Congressional Black
Caucus meeting if he could attend the White House health-care summit, he
was not immediately invited. Nor was any other advocate for single-payer
health care.

Conyers had asked to bring Dr. Marcia Angell, the first woman editor
in chief of The New England Journal of Medicine, the most prestigious
medical journal in the country, and Dr. Quentin Young. Young is perhaps
the most well-known single-payer advocate in America. He was Martin
Luther King Jr.'s doctor when King lived in Chicago. "My 15-minute house
calls would stretch into three hours," he told me.

But he came to know Barack Obama even better. Though his medical
partner was Obama's doctor, Young was his neighbor, friend and ally for
decades. "Obama supported single-payer, gave speeches for it," he said.

This past weekend, hundreds turned out to honor the 85-year-old
Young, including the Illinois governor and three members of Congress,
but the White House's response to Conyers' request that Young be
included in the summit? A resounding no. Perhaps because Obama
personally knows how persuasive and committed Young is.

After much outcry, Conyers was invited. Activist groups like
Physicians for a National Health Program (pnhp.org) expressed outrage
that no other single-payer advocate was to be among the 120 people at
the summit. Finally, the White House relented and invited Dr. Oliver
Fein, president of PNHP. Two people out of 120.

Locked out of the debate, silenced by the media, single-payer
advocates are taking action. Russell Mokhiber, who writes and edits the
Corporate Crime Reporter, has decided that the time has come to directly
confront the problem of our broken health-care system. He's going to the
national meeting of the American Health Insurance Plans and is joining
others in burning their health-insurance bills outside in protest.
Mokhiber told me, "The insurance companies have no place in the health
care of American people. How are we going to beat these people? We have
to start the direct confrontation." Launching a new organization,
*Single Payer Action* (singlepayeraction.org
<http://www.singlepayeraction.org>), Mokhiber and others promise to take
the issue to the insurance industry executives, the lobbyists and the
members of Congress directly, in Washington, D.C., and their home
district offices.

Critical mass is building behind a single-payer system. From Nobel
Laureate in Economics Joseph Stiglitz, who told me, "I've reluctantly
come to the view that it's the only alternative," to health-care
providers themselves, who witness and endure the system's failure
firsthand. Geri Jenkins of the newly formed, 150,000-nurses-strong
United American Nurses-National Nurses Organizing Committee (nnoc.net)
said: "It is the only health-care-reform proposal that can work. ... We
are currently pushing to have a genuine, honest policy debate, because
we'll win ... the health insurers will collapse under the weight of
their own irrelevance."

Dr. Young has now been invited to a Senate meeting along with the
"usual suspects": health-insurance providers, Big Pharma and
health-care-reform advocates. I asked Young what he thought of the
refrain coming from the White House, as well as from the leading senator
on the issue, Max Baucus, that "single-payer is off the table." "It's
repulsive," sighed Young. "We are very angry." But not discouraged. I
asked him what he thought about Burn Your Health Insurance Bill Day.
"Things are heating up." he chuckled. "When things are happening that
you have nothing to do with, you know it's a movement."

--------

/Denis Moynihan contributed research to this column./

/Amy Goodman is the host of "Democracy Now!," a daily international
TV/radio news hour airing on more than 700 stations in North America.
She was awarded the 2008 Right Livelihood Award, dubbed the "Alternative
Nobel" prize, and received the award in the Swedish Parliament in
December./

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Re: [PDI] Dennis Kucinich describes One Simple Reform that will fix the leading cause of world's ills

The mechanics are really simple--one will not get from point A to point B in regard to the collapse or the currency and the economy without nationalizing oil first.

I am not interested in arguing the point or making a case. It is too late for that.

If you and others cannot see the simple mechanics there is no point in talking about it.

It will all wash out soon enough.

The US right now is not in the position of creating any new currency--period.

Most simply do not realize how bad things are.

As far as your theories are concerned, there is no question thatUS debt-credit  is a disaster that sends money to the top, both privately and through the Federal government, as Kucinich says.

That is exactly what it is intended to do, and has been intended to do from the beginning.

Yes, currency should be debt-free, but there are many different ways to manage that.

As it stands you and most of the economists and money theorists are missing a central point.

No matter what the monetarists say (they are agents of the system and say what they are paid to say, consciously or unconsciously) debt-credit quasi-currency is not a commodity, and that is not, as you hold, what the system "allows".

The collapse is a clear indication that it is not allowed at all, whatever the clowns say.

It is more complex than that, and things are much worse than you seem to think.

I  might phrase your blind spot very precisely in a few words or phrases that will never occur to you in a hundred years, but if I did so you would surely tell me, as you have before, I am simply putting what you say in different words.

So why bother?

I am not against tthe gist of what you say, and agree with Kucincih, but much of the theory and analysis implied below is egregiously in error, not only historically but economically.

All the best.

EAC

L'observation consiste simplement
en l'intérêt jubilant montré par l'enfant
à la vue de sa propre image dans un miroir....


--- On Wed, 3/11/09, Geraldine Perry <healthadvantage@comcast.net> wrote:
From: Geraldine Perry <healthadvantage@comcast.net>
Subject: [PDI] Dennis Kucinich describes One Simple Reform that will fix the leading cause of world's ills
To: "Gene Costa" <costaeugene@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 5:44 PM

LESS than 1 1/2 minutes of your time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_-QRKyu6g

Call/contact your Congress critter today and as often as you can and demand
that Congress support Dennis Kucinich and do its Constitutional duty to coin
(create) money and regulate the value thereof.

If you still believe our money and currency should be backed by precious metals
or that it is the government (and not the banking elite) that is the root of the
problem - please CAREFULLY watch these three you tube segments, less than 25
minutes total time to watch all 3 segments, beginning with this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E0UPBtmTb0

Following are some of my additions/reiterations to Dale's presentation to
help dispel common myths:

1. The common myth is that debt free Constitutional money leads to mischief -
when in fact it is debt-based money that has ALWAYS led to mischief and much
worse. This is true whether metals or paper are used as money. When money is
created as debt, be it paper, or metal, it is treated as a commodity which
allows those in control to obtain monopoly power over it, and government is
turned into the servant of the money power/monopoly (as Jefferson foretold).
This is why one of the Rothschild's said "I care not what puppet is
placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire, the man that controls
Britain's money supply controls the British Empire.And I control the money
supply." This has been going on for 1000s of years!

2. Today, we have to keep reminding ourselves that although currency is printed
at the Bureau of Engraving, this is only a TINY fraction of the money supply -
and it is ONLY printed AFTER the government has in effect borrowed more
"money" from the privately owned banking system. In short - our
government does NOT create our money - the private banking system does, and the
banking system is the prime beneficiary - NOT the government! (Hence a
Rothschild scenario is in operation).

3. The money creation system I describe in my book and in the slide
presentation on my website (which is closely aligned with the American Monetary
Institute, with one important element added, as described in the intro page to
my slide presentation) minimizes, if not eliminates that kind of "you
scratch my back" scenario through transparency, extinguishment and in
response to the demand coming directly from the people's own productive and
consumptive capacity.

4. As Byron Dale said - money is a TOOL, nothing more - nothing less. I urge
you to read carefully my page on What is Money (as well as Quotes on Gold and
notable quotes pages):
http://www.thetwofacesofmoney.com/index.php/Site/WhatIsMoney

5. As to metals having an advantage because they are limited this is the EXACT
reason why they should NOT be used as money (something argued hard and often by
Franklin, Jefferson, Lincoln and others). Recall that fractional reserve
(creating money as debt) was invented at a time when metals were used as money.

6. We labor under the media-created myth that the government prints money, when
in fact money is created (mostly as computer digits) when debt is issued.

Consider that today the total outstanding debt (public and private) is FAR
greater than our money supply. Thus our total debt is $53 trillion and climbing
rapidly, while out money supply, using the broadest and now unpublished measure
of M3 is around $14 trillion (give or take a trillion). If you use Fed measures
of M1 + M2, the money supply is just $7.7 trillion.

HOW can there be too much money in the system??? There is TOO MUCH DEBT --- NOT
too much money!

As the ending segment of The Money Masters details, this fact has justified the
plunder of other people's resources all through the ages, and is the reason
countries around the world are now disintegrating.

It's well past time we stopped this travesty. PLEASE join this crusade, and
contact your Congress critters now and often on this subject.


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